
Popular social bookmarking citizen journalism website Newsvine was thrashing around in convulsions of righteous indignation yesterday, and the peristaltic shockwaves continue to ebb and flow.
A joke played on Newsvine readers at large, conceived in secret and executed by 12 of the website's best-known contributors, has not in general been taken in the best of humour and a massive backlash has ensued, amid claims that Newsvine's very bedrock of credibility has suffered irreversible damage. Complaints are rife that Newsvine is falling prey to the same kind of cliqueism that is seen as having been harmful to competing websites such as Digg.
The Terrible Twelve (also known as the Drollhouse Group) had the idea of swapping identities pairwise and writing outrageous articles on behalf of their adopted personae, prodding firmly at the boundaries of believability. The motivation is believed to go beyond mere casual amusement. There was, purportedly, a serious point to be made, namely the dangers of being too trusting of our regular sources of information to the extent of letting our guard down. The Great Newsvine Joke (as history will no doubt record it) was intended as a wake-up call to those who are avid consumers of information but may have fallen into the trap of taking the reliability of their sources for granted.
To that extent, the GNJ may well have reached its mark. But it may also have continued well past it judging by the collective response of the Vine when the perpetrators owned up to their prank.
There are though voices in support of the Twelve. Veteran Viner Adam Pocket told us: "There's loads miffed because they were too gullible to spot summat was up and ended up making right fools of theirsels'. Punctured their egos when they realised they'd been 'ad. Claimed they'd been humiliated. Seems to me it's their own fault for thinkin' they're so clever 'n all that. Not gonna calm down in a hurry, thems won't. Silly sods. Up their own backsides if you ask me."
The problem with any kind of 'cliques' or groups setting up anything with any 'in joke' is that it begins a clear path to a 'them' and 'us' scenario which then threatens the cohesiveness of the Vine through its natural exclusion of everyone else.
What makes Newsvine so successful is the feeling of trust among members that whatever is written has no hidden agenda or questionable edge. The main worry with any articles like 'The Joke' is that they set up new anxieties for members which weren't there before and which merely erode the credibility of both the comments and their sources for the future.
We are supposed to be spreading the best news, not making it with silly pranks which draws attention from that. We are not here to call out each other, 'humiliate' anyone, or to make ourselves look better than anyone else. I would like to think that we are here as professionals to debate together, challenge one another and actually get smarter. If not, I certainly wouldn't wish to waste any more of my time being a part of any partisan entity which favours any kind of 'clique' over the whole community.
I did not notice any of it, being off for a few days, but one thing is being forgotten in all this 'pranking', that Newsvine claims to be an 'international' site, of interest to different peoples and cultures. Yet this is clearly an 'American' in joke which would exclude people who do not share such perception. How is that supposed to be appreciated by others who do not share that cultural outlook?
Newsvine cannot have it both ways. It is either international or American and if it is the former, then it has a duty to all its users that members do not feel unnecessarily excluded from any perceived 'cliques' or groups that the main country may initiate. I have loved Newsvine because I have felt included in all aspects of it. When a certain group takes it up on itself to do something which makes others feel excluded and unhappy, judging by some of the comments, there is no fun in that at all.
Newsvine is not a playground, or mainly for the benefit of its members. It is actually for the benefit of the public, providing news and items for public consumption. How can we be taken seriously by the public when we play 'pranks' like these which hog the front page? What benefit are those stories to readers who come to Newsvine to be informed? And what messages are we giving about Newsvine to newcomers with this kind of 'in group' activity?
It just doesn't feel right to me, but then I am not an American.
Bruised ego's are one thing Dennis, so far, as much as we can tell, there has been no "lasting damage" to the Site. But, I have a horrible feeling (that won't go away, even after "sleeping on it", ) that the repercussions from these events will go on rumbling around for some time to come.
Calvin is not pleased with what has happened, he has already made that quite clear in one of his comments, let's just put ourselves in his shoes for a moment.
He has spent the last few days in meetings with MSNBC fighting our corner and doing his very utmost to gain credibility for the Vine and for Viners.
How do you think he feels now?
It's as if the twelve participants of this prank has walked up to him and the rest of the Newsvine Staff, and smacked them hard across the face.
It hurts! It is bound to have further repercussions, and I doubt if we have heard the last of it.
He has spent the last few days in meetings with MSNBC fighting our corner and doing his very utmost to gain credibility for the Vine and for Viners.
How do you think he feels now?
It's as if the twelve participants of this prank has walked up to him and the rest of the Newsvine Staff, and smacked them hard across the face.
Precisely, Sandie. Furthermore, the minute certain groups are allowed to do what they wish to do whenever they feel like it, that's a different Newsvine we are going to have; one where some people are empowered to make the rules and drag others into it on their terms, while others feel weakened by the system. More important, we should not have two 'pranks' taking up two of the top stories when many other good stories can't see the light of day. There is something very wrong with that.
If Newsvine wishes to nurture 'favourites' to the exclusion of other members, that is its choice, but nothing will make those pranks seem right for me if we are really trying to be taken seriously and to grow professional international writers on one of the best platforms I feel privileged to be associated with.
What do you want to do? Punish them?
Not at all, Dennis, and a strange question to ask in view of this article. That is not what my objection is about. I am simply putting another view to what happened, especially as I did not participate in it in any way and would not have wanted to because of its exclusive nature.
NV has never been restricted to hard news. Many of the personal articles have not been "news" in the strict sense but add something all the same.
I quite agree with that, and long live that diversity. But a prank like that which involved so many people is an entirely different thing. I just find it a little disappointing.
What do you want to do? Punish them?
How about just moving the articles to only be private Drollhouse articles and/or tagging them as satire?
How about just moving the articles to only be private Drollhouse articles and/or tagging them as satire?
Yes, agreed Brian. That would have been more appropriate as it would not have taken on the 'serious' air it did to involve, and mislead, so many people.
I certainly wouldn't wish to waste any more of my time being a part of any partisan entity which favours any kind of 'clique' over the whole community
I agree, I'm very much hoping to hear an official response from the newsvine staff, I am disappointed with "The Joke", How many other people wrote serious articles yesterday that got drowned out by "The Joke" articles, and to call it an "experiment" common... not only were we prankd but now they're insulting our intelligence too
I consider myself a casual user of newsvine (some call us "lurkers") and I think the MAJORITY of the members here are in that category, this is one time we really need to speak up it's our community too.... a SMALL highly active group of members (whose contributions I previously held in very high regard and still do but now with asterisks) basically appointed themselves gatekeepers of the vine yesterday. The only gatekeepers on the vine should be respectful debate and the voting system,
TRUST is never something to be tested unless you're prepared to lose it, and testing TRUST implies a certain level of contempt for the person you are testing (the casual members) or some sort of insecurity on the part of the testers (The 12 perpetrators),
I will report ALL of the involved "The Joke" articles as of Innaccurate or Misconduct, to demonstrate my displeasure, I encourage other casual users to do the same, it's a great way to let the staff know our displeasure if you don't have to time to write a rebuttal to this "JOKE", the integrity of the vine, and value of ALL of its members is in question in my view, the vine feels less welcoming today
TRUST is never something to be tested unless you're prepared to lose it, and testing TRUST implies a certain level of contempt for the person you are testing (the casual members) or some sort of insecurity on the part of the testers (The 12 perpetrators),
Absolutely, Blitzen, especially the 'contempt' element, which suggests an arrogance towards fellow Viners which is perplexing. Newsvine certainly feels differently to me today than it did yesterday, and that is not good. I never thought I would be put into this position of feeling like a 'them' rather than the 'us' in-group, when all I wished for when I joined was to work with my Vine colleagues in a spirit of mutual respect, and develop my talent through sharing ideas and expertise. Not to be the subject of any in-jokes for some smug personal merriment. I think those who support that 'joke' have missed that key point.
There was no contempt, Ms. Cyprah. I assure you. None.
We pranked ourselves much more severely than we did you. We put our own credibility in the hands of madmen.
You see, we turned over our columns on trust alone. No one knew what would be published in their name, but we all willingly took that risk.
Our column. Our credibility. Our choice.
Up above you mentioned this being US only. One of the people is Australian, another from New Zealand. I'm American bet many around here consider me Turkish because much of what I seed/write concerns Turkey. There was an international component, though that was never a factor. Never even occurred to me until now.
Really, no contempt, what Noah's doing in this article looks an awful lot like contempt to me.
There was no contempt, Ms. Cyprah. I assure you. None.
Thanks for that reassurance, Dennis, and I accept it fully.
Such a shame that some of the people I admire the most were involved in this, but I don't believe in blaming. I prefer presenting alternative views and people have the free choice whether to agree or disagree, and I think I have made my own view clear. But, for me, it does feel uncomfortable having to do this when I have really enjoyed being here and met some amazing people. Let's hope it blows over quickly and we can all return to what we do best. :o)
Newsvine is not a playground, or mainly for the benefit of its members.
That's a very noble sentiment, but it's not true. Newsvine is here primarily for its members. We're the ones who make the community. If we weren't here, there would be no Newsvine worth visiting.
And, again, Newsvine is many different things to many different people. It may have started out as a "news" aggregation and submission site, but it has since grown into something more than that--a result that Mike D. has expressed his pleasant surprise at.
If we want to say Newsvine is "just" news, by the way, that means no more NDC, no more trivia, and no more "question of the day" articles, Ms. Cyprah. What will you submit then?
If we want to say Newsvine is "just" news, by the way, that means no more NDC, no more trivia, and no more "question of the day" articles, Ms. Cyprah. What will you submit then?
I was never one for 'just news', Spiffie. But one has to draw the line at something which was entirely inappropriate; that had a sense of insensitivity to other viners whose stories were pushed off the field for simple pranks. That was not right. But I am all for diversity in the news, which is why I have always posted articles relating to me my personal passions (relationships and motivation) regardless of them not having a hope in hell of ever reaching the front page.
But one has to draw the line at something which was entirely inappropriate
Sure. As long as it's you?
that had a sense of insensitivity to other viners whose stories were pushed off the field for simple pranks
And I'm sure some people feel a little miffed when a trivia article pushes them off the front page. Or a three sentence QotD ("How do you feel about race? Tell me here!"). I'm sure some people might be miffed about the Newsvine Drinking contest, or comics that get seeded, or any number of other things. Big deal and sour grapes, not necessarily in that order.
regardless of them not having a hope in hell of ever reaching the front page.
What are you talking about? I see you on the front page all the time.
that had a sense of insensitivity to other viners whose stories were pushed off the field for simple pranks.
I'd love to see the statistics. As I mentioned above, far more articles are probably getting pushed off by everyone writing to complain about the prank than were affected by the prank itself.
What are you talking about? I see you on the front page all the time.
Spiffie, thanks for that laugh! ;o)
As to
Big deal and sour grapes, not necessarily in that order.
You are entitled, as I, to your opinions and if you don't care about how other Viners, who might be newcomers or not feeling as included, felt about what happened, then we have to agree to disagree on our viewpoints.
Ms. Cyprah, I disagree with you on this topic (I think that the 10 or more duplicate articles about this same topic today screwed up the Vine far more than the prank did), but I admire how you set a good example of how to disagree without insulting. Thank you.
Ms. Cyprah, I disagree with you on this topic (I think that the 10 or more duplicate articles about this same topic today screwed up the Vine far more than the prank did)
I am not sure how that was possible when the rebuttals were not on the front page causing the havoc that the others caused, but it is your right to express how you feel, Katrix.
The implication there, and I noticed it on another of your comments too, is that everyone's opinion matters except those who are objecting to what happened. I would like to believe that you not only thought the prank was okay, in your opinion, but you would also respect others in their feelings of how the prank affected them. There are always two sides to a story, otherwise we are on a dangerous ground of having perceived favourites who can say or do what they like, while anyone who disagress is perceived to be the real troublemakers. Nothing divides a community more than selective people pleasing themselves then trying to justify it by ignoring its effect on others.
I accept your perception of this incident, Katrix, though I might disagree with it, and also thank you for your generous compliment regarding my approach. It is most kind of you to note it.
the rebuttals were not on the front page causing the havoc that the others caused
I don't have anyone on my watchlist, and I don't click on anyone's pages. I wouldn't have seen the rebuttals if they weren't on the front page.
thank you for your generous compliment regarding my approach
You earned that, Ms. Cyprah.
@ Cyprah - There is a term for such activity. It is called being 'punked'. The choice of words is intentional because it describes the kind of person that thinks it is funny.
@Dennis - the perpetrators have now deemed this as an "experiment" trying to raise it above the level of a crude joke. They have arrogantly promised to do it again.
They have the right to destroy their own credibility anytime they wish. They do not have the right to tarnish the credibility of others.
Calvin is likely taking time to determine the extend of any harm done at MSNBC before taking any action. He cannot be happy with what has happened. He does not want to overreact.
@Dennis - the perpetrators have now deemed this as an "experiment" trying to raise it above the level of a crude joke. They have arrogantly promised to do it again.
Which justifies what I said earlier about some people feeling empowered to do what they like while others might feel weakened.
An "experiment"? Seriously? I would have expected this group to remember Rhine Cyrus's "experiment" and how well that worked out :P
like who, someone is having a slight darkening of the "FORCE'...peace on earth, purity of essence, peace on earth, purit of essence
The Terrible Twelve (also known as the Drollhouse Group) had the idea of swapping identities pairwise and writing outrageous articles on behalf of their adopted personae, prodding firmly at the boundaries of believability.
...and not tag them as satire. That is the only reason there is an uproar. It's a simple rule, followed dozens of times daily by people writing satire on Newsvine. Why do you all think you shouldn't have to follow this rule? It's in place for one reason only, to avoid exactly the situation caused here.
Who wrote Myk's fake coming out story? Want to explain how that was a light amusing piece not intended to offend?
If you can't advertise it as satire then don't write satire. The rule is pretty simple. If you want to do it in your private group articles go for it, but public articles have this one little rule. And yes, this was satire. You were each writing a satire of each other's articles.
Is that what we're calling them? The Terrible Twelve?
It makes them sound like a cadre of mass murderers or something equally serious. I like it.
Me, too.
Celestina, you bad, girl, you baaaad!
I saw some comments yesterday that called us worse. One called us "terrorists." Another compared it to 9/11.
One called us "terrorists." Another compared it to 9/11.
...What?
Can you link us, or tell us where to find it?
I think that particular gem was on "my" article, which is currently closed.
Calvin? What's the official response on re-opening some of the prank articles? I'm pretty sure most of us are pretty proud of 'em.
Apparently I missed something because I have no clue as to what happen
Here is one of the 12 articles: http://vikibabbles.newsvine.com/_news/2008/02/28/1331744-am-i-a-dirty-old-lady
Note, they took one of the articles down because it caused too much trouble even for them, but insist the others are fine.
Hmm.........I read that one and the corresponding story to it. I thought something wasn't right, or at the very least a bit more personal than what is usually posted here but figured what the hey and moved on.
Christ, what a bunch of pomposity. Newsvine's credibility? Damage at MSNBC? Bull@!$%#.
This is the internet. What credibility anything posted on Newsvine actually has relates directly to the quality of the individual piece. In terms of purported "credibility" of individual authors, that's built up over time as a result of writing individual articles which are worthwhile. Anyone, however, who lends Newsvine as a whole any credibility simply because it's "Newsvine" deserves to have their nose smacked with a rolled-up newspaper.
As far as MSNBC is concerned, I imagine anyone new to the site would find the "joke" impenetrable, and be unfamiliar enough with the cast of characters to be oblivious to anything wrong. Hence, no "damage" done, except to the dignity of pompous readers who had their knee-jerk loyalties called into question by voting for the kind of writing that they'd ordinarily blast as being reprehensible.
The sole potential problem is in the swapping of identities, which could lead to accusations of or actual perpetration of "gaming the system." Brad Farris recently wrote an article on sockpuppets that questioned whether this is, in fact, currently happening on the 'vine. No doubt to some extent it is. It would be a difficult thing to curtail completely. The issue here is that now you have a large group of very visible writers on Newsvine engaging in a gaming of the system, albeit for non-commercial purposes, and THAT'S the only real issue.
How do you know that this group or any other isn't gaming the system for the promotion of their own articles. It would be quite easy for these twelve to vote each other's articles up the vine to promote their prank-- actual stories, then, may suffer as a result. The issue has come up before in regards to some of the right-wing troll-bait that has shot to the top of the vine, and this sort of prank doesn't do anything to alleviate suspicions that Newsvine is terribly vulnerable to such gamesmanship.
For people such as me, it's not a terribly large problem. I post articles and seeds here because I want to, and I'm not looking to be at the head of the leaderboard, or to create a portfolio of work in the hopes of getting a job in "real" journalism. And I don't particularly care about the pittance I make in earnings from what I write, here. Certainly I'm not afraid to tell my Newsvine friends that they're being @!$%#s (hell, I'm not afraid to tell me "real world" friends that). I don't expect neturality here any more than I would expect it in a schoolyard, and I think the lack of it has about the same import as it does there.
But the worry about conjoined efforts to game the system to the inclusion or exclusion of any particular work is a legitimate one. I've brought it up on Newsvine regularly over the course of the last year and a half. It was the primary problem that drove me away from Plastic.com. Sockpuppets and gamesmanship don't stand to cripple Newsvine in the manner that it did Plastic, since Newsvine has a much more open policy about publishing work, but it's still a significant worry.
If Newsvine begins to become a plaything manipulable by only a dozen or so people, its utility to a much larger body of people will become stunted to the same degree.
And that's the only problem.
The rest is all just hurt feelings and indignant outrage.
I wish I could vote for this more than once.
The doom and gloom bull@!$%# floating around is just absurd.
If Newsvine begins to become a plaything manipulable by only a dozen or so people, its utility to a much larger body of people will become stunted to the same degree.
Absolutely, which is the core of my opposition to this. Where does it all stop? And is it okay for other groups to join in and do their own thing whenever they feel like it?
Brad Farris recently wrote an article on sockpuppets that questioned whether this is, in fact, currently happening on the 'vine.
I could be mistaken, but I believe that was Belarius (sp?).
@!$%#. Good call. That's what I get for relying solely on my memory.
I imagine anyone new to the site would find the "joke" impenetrable, and be unfamiliar enough with the cast of characters to be oblivious to anything wrong.
Exactly. I thought Dennis McCann's article seemed off, because it's unlike him to be so rude to a specific group of people - and I would expect him to support aspiring artists. I'm not familiar with Celestina's style, so hers would have gone straight over my head. If I were a newcomer and had read Mykola's article, I would have been impressed with the compassion shown in the responses to him.
All the whining about broken trust? It isn't as if these guys were picking investments for me. It isn't as if I automatically green-stamp any article written by a specific author - because even if I agree with someone's points on many issues, there will probably still be a few on which we disagree.
In the overall scheme of things, this really isn't important enough for people to be as upset as they are. It seems mostly like bruised egos. I can understand why some people might be slightly miffed, but most seem to be really overreacting.
If Newsvine begins to become a plaything manipulable by only a dozen or so people, its utility to a much larger body of people will become stunted to the same degree
Great point re-posting it for emphasis...
Is newsvine now just going to become a place for small groups to push agendas? the joke was a defacto denial of service attack, those articles dominated the front page for the whole day... one or two articles in a prank fine... but 12?? if you wrote a serious article yesterday you wasted your time, the blueprint on how to succesfully "spam" the vine is now out
They say it was a 'social experiment'. They say they do not want to be trusted. Now they say we can trust them that they meant to tell us all about it "sometime". We only have their word for what the intent was, how long it was intended to last and for the purpose they had in mind. We are now to accept their word that the experiment is over. For now. At least one of them has promised to do something again. It was just a 'prank'. "You can trust me again"
Once again Iarnuocon sums up every side of the issue in an undismissable manner.
Is newsvine now just going to become a place for small groups to push agendas? the joke was a defacto denial of service attack, those articles dominated the front page for the whole day... one or two articles in a prank fine... but 12?? if you wrote a serious article yesterday you wasted your time, the blueprint on how to succesfully "spam" the vine is now out.
Precisely, Blitzen. That goes to the heart of the matter.
It was just a 'prank'. "You can trust me again"
Don't trust me, Dr. Know. Ever. And don't trust anyone else here. Not because they might be dishonest, but because they might be wrong. So read our words and think for yourself. Critically.
Judge the articles by the words, not who wrote them.
ALWAYS REMEMBER Don't believe anything you read on this web page, or, for that matter, anything you hear on The Neal Boortz Show, unless it is consistent with what you already know to be true, or unless you have taken the time to research the matter to prove its accuracy to your satisfaction. This is known as "doing your homework."
I am an active member of this community, as far as I am concern these sort of capers are stupid as they sound. They should be ashamed I guess many of us geniune members that care about the vine will be keeping clear of their columns. I expect also this sort of stupidness will be frown on, this is a citizen journalist community not a kinder garden. Lets remember 12 stupid members are a minority in a site that is dedicated to citizen journalism they do net represent and can never represent what the vine is all about. TRUTH, HONESTY and GOOD JOURNALISM. I for one ask them to resign., as they are a waste of space.
Calvin Ban them now please! they annoy me
TRUTH, HONESTY and GOOD JOURNALISM. I for one ask them to resign., as they are a waste of space.
I wouldn't go as far as that, Babel Fish because the diversity of members and approaches is what makes Newsvine so special. But I do draw the line at the real benefit of such a 'prank' to us all when there was clearly an 'in group' agenda to its potential consequences. It was clearly not for the really inclusive benefit of all Newsvine members. It was simply meant to prove a point in a very superior way and that is rather sad and limiting.
I am an active member of this community, as far as I am concern these sort of capers are stupid as they sound.
Great. Put the authors on 'ignore."
They should be ashamed
Sheepish, maybe. Ashamed? Ridiculous.
I expect also this sort of stupidness will be frown on, this is a citizen journalist community not a kinder garden.
This site is a website, nothing more nor less. What people make of its content is up to them. You make of it a place for "citizen journalism" (however you define that nebulous term). Other people make of it other things. Are you right and they wrong? The reverse would be equally applicable.
I for one ask them to resign., as they are a waste of space.
I, for one, ask them to stay, and to perhaps take a bit more care to consider the ramifications of future pranks, as they have penned far more interesting work than I have ever seen out of you.
Calvin Ban them now please! they annoy me
Yes, that's certainly the criteria by which people should be banned؟ Calvin, ban Babelfish, now! He annoys me!
Oh, come now. I have been reading complaints and arguments over this ever since I got up this morning, and while I think there are some legitimate points being made, the "in-group" argument ruffles my feathers, because it sounds an awful lot like the "clique" accusations being flung around. Are we talking about The Drollhouse? Because the whole idea started on the group talk box there, where any of the 37 members (including a couple I have been seeing are quite offended) could have read it and joined in. Clearly, the thing wouldn't have gone off if everyone knew, but it was open to that whole group, and enacted in a truly friendly spirit upon everyone else. I have read a couple of comments from new users who felt left out and isolated, and I have directly apologized to them. But one group of users forming a temporary alliance is not dividing Newsvine into "us" and "them".
Clearly, you are destroying Newsvine single-handedly, and must be stopped.
Seconded. (Again)
the "in-group" argument ruffles my feathers, because it sounds an awful lot like the "clique" accusations being flung around.
As I mentioned in a related thread - Unfortunately, there seems to be a group of 'viners who are always looking for reasons to cry that they're being excluded, and that the popular kids aren't inviting them to play. Pretty junior-high-school.
Ban them now please! they annoy me
If Calvin banned everyone who annoyed me, this would quickly become a very lonely place.
BlaiseP, I know you intended for that to be really insulting and with the intention to put me in my place.
But I have to admit: I laughed a little. Sorry.
Would you mind telling me what you think of the other perpetrators? Don't hold back.
Let's repeat, and see who laughs:
This article has been removed by the Newsvine community.
But one group of users forming a temporary alliance is not dividing Newsvine into "us" and "them".
It is about perceptions, Celestina, regardless of the reality, and, obviously, other perceptions don't match with yours.
Let's repeat, and see who laughs:
This article has been removed by the Newsvine community.
HAHAAAA!!!
Oh, that's a good one, BlaiseP. You're a real funny man. :)
This is awesome. I'm even committing logical fallacies now.
It's like Christmas on a Leap Day.
A little advice for you, BlaiseP (since you seem to like shelling it out so much): Breeeeeathe. Nice, deep breaths.
Clearly some feel that *you* are being the ass here, given your comments are getting collapsed. Maybe you need to take a little breather and calm down a bit.
The Newsvine is dividing as we speak, this is Drollhouse Defender's article. On another rather response to this Joke business, I'm doing very well.
I'm over here to say what needs saying, by someone who only responded to one of the Joke Diaries, by saying I was going to remove the Drollhousers from my Friends' List. Everyone peeks under collapsed entries, especially ones with big green stars on them.
@BlaiseP - you might look under the collapsed entries. I do not. It defeats the purpose of placing them on ignore.
Nah, I don't peek under Ignore. That's to tell me "Oh, right, this guy's a troll, don't respond to it". Those who go on Ignore are truly ignored. I'd really rather not get banned off Newsvine, at this point, but I'm sorta interested in how this pans out.
I'll stop shooting when I see a collective apology.
Why don't you just shut up, Noah?
Because I am way too amused.
The Deplorable Twelve must recant and repent, put on hairshirts and self flagellate. Re-education camp and public self-criticism will be necessary before these elitist harbingers of lies, deceptions and counter-revolutionary propaganda are to be considered rehabilitated and re-introduced to the greater community.
Oh! I see the error of my ways. I have been Enlightened. It's just a Joke... yes, let's keep repeating that. It's Funny.
As for self-flagellating, I don't know what kind of sadomasochists these folks are. We mustn't defame anyone for their sexual orentation. Hair shirts? Kink-ee! Beat me, whip me, make me write an article about it. It'll shoot straight to the top of Newsvine.
I have been reading complaints and arguments over this ever since I got up this morning, and while I think there are some legitimate points being made, the "in-group" argument ruffles my feathers, because it sounds an awful lot like the "clique" accusations being flung around.
Celestina, see my comment above for my opinion on the cause of those accusations.
Are we talking about The Drollhouse? Because the whole idea started on the group talk box there, where any of the 37 members (including a couple I have been seeing are quite offended) could have read it and joined in.
I'm a member of The Drollhouse (or I will be for a couple more minutes) and I rarely visit the group page and even more rarely pay attention to the group talk box.
iarnuocon I beg to differ on many of your points but I agree many of my articles are not that good, however I have learnt my limitations but because someones articles are good it does not mean they can get away with blue murder on the vine. However I respect your opinion and you should respect mine insulting me is of cause a CofH infringement you of course do not think you have infringed that do you? But you did and I am not collapsing your comment as I really want people to see what you wrote and of course how many people voted on your comment that thought it was great that you did break the CofH.
Notice I did not insulted anyone in this debate, I think the decent thing is for you to apologise, but of course you won't will you? Your of course forgiven and of course everyone can still read my original opinion, those that agree with me will not be disturb by your insults or opinion.
I think the decent thing is for you to apologise, but of course you won't will you?
Nope. I think someone who takes an incident like this and responds by insisting in several different articles that the perpetrators be banned from the site, regardless of whatever else they might have contributed, the person who makes that suggestions should understand exactly where I stand on that issue. You think it "insulting" that I don't like your work. Tough. You think it a violation of the CoH that I respond to your pleas of "ban them" by noting that I prefer the work of the people you are vilifying. Again, tough.
Its your opinion that my statement is a violation of the CoH, and you are welcome to that opinion. I'd merely point out that asking to have someone banned because they annoy you is a far worse violation than noting that you don't care for someone's work.
Notice I did not insulted anyone in this debate
Yeah, sure:
So let me see, first you implied that they aren't "genuine" members of the vine, and that they don't care about it. Then you called them stupid. Finally, you finished up by essentially calling them dishonest hacks.
Yeah, you're all about the respect, brother. But of course, you don't feel you violated the CoH, do you? Physician, heal thyself.
Your annoyed, lol I gather that your a big fan of the magnificent twelve, or just like an argument, lol.
I for one am going to ignore you, plus them because of your arrogance that has been very notice now and in the past not just by me but others.
Your annoyed, lol I gather that your a big fan of the magnificent twelve, or just like an argument, lol.
Call it a combination of liking argument and hating self-appointed moral @!$%#s arbiters of correctness. I hardly know any of the twelve, with the exceptions of Dennis, who I blasted in a response article, and Viki, whose company I enjoy (having met her at the Columbus Vinemeet), but whose articles I rarely read (no offense meant, Viki).
I for one am going to ignore you, plus them because of your arrogance that has been very notice now and in the past not just by me but others.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell your story walking.
I note you didn't apologize for being insulting, though. Hypocrite.
The Great Newsvine Joke (as history will no doubt record it)
I nominate two better names for it:
Skitzovine
And:
Days of Our Vines
02/28 NEVER FORGET.
Jared, you just hit om the actual name.
It was called Schizovine. The name was port of the reveal published in every article.
02/28 NEVER FORGET.
In fear of making this whole thing worse...that date was chosen because it it my birthday. :)
Happy Birthday Lauhal.
How'd these cretins know that was your birthday?
Unless.... you're one of them?
Cliques always exist and existed on Newsvine before "The Prank."
The many groups that exist to amuse the cliques are a good place for pranks, however, that would provide no public humiliation for the gullible.
There must be a group to be duped for "The Prank" to have created amusement.
Everyone knows news is not very reliable, no prank was needed to prove that point.
There are always double standards, one for the inner sanctum and one for the rest, "The Prank" shows that double standard.
The fact that the 12 Popular People perpetrated this proves how clique-ish NV is.
I think I will go check out Digg.
There are always double standards, one for the inner sanctum and one for the rest, "The Prank" shows that double standard.
You are so right on this, which makes it all the more sad.
The fact that 12 Popular people...
*sigh* As I said above, the idea originated on The Drollhouse's group talk. Any of the 37 members could have joined in.
There is no "clique", though there are friends and groups of friends. A "clique" implies that the group in question is always aligned as themselves against the world. That is certainly not the case this the 12 folks who participated. Several of them I have rarely/never talked to off of Newsvine, and we certainly do not always go around defending each other and parroting each other. There's a huge difference between saying that you're upset that a group of us may have used the site inappropriately, or that you, personally, felt hurt or humiliated...but it's another thing to say the site has been corrupted by cliques with no evidence of that.
The rankings of those 12 articles yesterday, in comparison to the rankings of, for example, iarnuocon's excellent article on logical fallacies is one source of evidence. Not that you all did it intentionally, but the digg mafia didn't do anything intentionally either at the beginning.
Yeah -- I will say that my article which had been doing really well was sort of pushed out of the featured columnists block.
Sniff.
:)
Folks, The Drollhouse is a public group. Always has been.
Most groups are public, but they are only read by their group members. Putting something on your group page means it is essentially private. When was the last time you read the group talk on libertarians or vegetarians or extropians or condensed milk? Never, right?
Frankly, I think this whole issue has been blown out of proportion.
Though I only read 3 of the 12 "offending" articles, from summaries I've read, most were entirely "meta" in content, and only a few even qualified as opinion pieces. And of those that actually had some "news" content, the opinions weren't all that uncommon, just uncharacteristic of their authors. The only potential loss of credibility is if the reader knows something of the author, and for the vast majority of possible readers, that's just not the case.
And it's not like the authors weren't conscious of others' feelings; that's the whole reason "Mykola's" article was removed.
Nobody likes to be made a fool of, but I fell for it, too. Try to appreciate it for what it was, a fairly convincing prank.
Perhaps you are right, it has been blow out of proportion, but I know that I will not be able to read any of the future articles of any of these people, without wondering if they are trying to "punk" me, so I just won't read their articles and seeds. There are plenty of other great writers here.
I guess that I am over it, lets move on.
will not be able to read any of the future articles of any of these people, without wondering if they are trying to "punk" me
Probably a valuable lesson to be learned. SERIOUSLY, I met many of them at Vinemeet West, I always consider the possibility I'm being punked. Viki was the one who threw me. LOL
And of those that actually had some "news" content, the opinions weren't all that uncommon, just uncharacteristic of their authors.
Yeah, I would understand some of the screaming and such if these were on some sort of news topic telling some sort of event, and none of them were--the closest was Celestia's (which was opinion) and the bunny one (which might be a real thing happening, but the author isn't involved in it). The rest was just opinion pieces or telling information.
Really, the only lies that were told was that Myk was gay, Noah and Viki were role-playing The Graduate, and Dennis was an elitist prick.
Really, the only lies that were told was that Myk was gay, Noah and Viki were role-playing The Graduate, and Dennis was an elitist prick.
Yeah, Djehuty really does kill bunnies. Trust me, he's shown me videos.
...Link? :O
I have to wonder though if there would be so much "Righteous Indignation" - if this had happened on April 1st.
OMG Newsvine has a conspiracy?
The Drollhouse 12 actually killed JFK. Using equipment they stole from Roswell to build a time machine. And the best part is I can say this out loud, because by tomorrow, none of you will remember any of this ever happened.
Yeah but you brought in time travel and gave me a headache now.
I had thought an Earthling infiltrated my ocular and neural implants, causing me to telepath my superiors to tell them to delay our invasion
I was out of town. What the hell happened?
Something intended all in good fun turned sour.
No big deal, really, but it sure is generating a lot of traffic for some folks!
Attaboy! Another one decides to jump on the gravy train of page hits generated by the cottage industry spun off by "The Prank."
No! No! No!!! No!
I just want justice!
Attaboy! Another one decides to jump on the gravy train of page hits generated by the cottage industry spun off by "The Prank."
No! No! No!!! No!
No piece, no justice!
It was a joke, time to move on!
It was a joke, time to move on!
I agree it's time to move on, so I shall stop tracking this thread now, but, if it was a joke, I still maintain that it was perpetuated not with the best interests of Newsvine and it's Members.
Anybody for a box of Kleenex?
Amy time, Sweetie.
:)
thank you.
This thread was fun! We should do this more often.
*crickets*
Is it dead? Does that mean we get to have a wake, now?
Whiskey's on me, people. I reckon I owe ya.
no dr know is still as biblically indignant as ever. 'Evil' you see, can't turn your back on 'evil' for a moment, must save the cosmos from 'evil'
I've done pretty well up til now but I think he/she might have to be force fed my literary felch and true 'evil' will be redefined for a certain prissy brow-beetle.
I woudn't call it just yet. Give it a bit...
You're having waaay too much fun, hemphill. Settle in, have a drink, and toast some marshmallows.
I take my kicks where I can get them these days. I am settled in with my rye whiskey and pecan sandies. yep, lots of fun.
This latest "Fatwah" has been a real blast. Boy, some of these people - if someone REALLY did something bad to them.....like get in an elevator with them, drop a giant fart, and get off at the next floor, leaving them in it?
I fear they'd have no alternative but to slowly crawl into a corner and shrink. I can't imagine having such lack of respect for myself to throw up my hands, proclaim myself a victim and spend hour after hour and hundreds of comments being a whinebag. An Aussie buddy of mine calls them Binge Wengers.
I can only comfort them with the words of Richard Pryor, "Go have a Coke and a smile and shut the F@#$ up!"
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