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Visit Dennis M Wright's column >>

DENNIS M WRIGHT

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Incertum ex Certis
Articles Posted: 137  Links Seeded: 798
Member Since: 1/2006  Last Seen: 5/17/2012

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Put a Seed Newsvine link on your own site

Newsvine: Hotbed of Citizen Journalism or just one more social bookmarking site?

Wed Sep 5, 2007 7:46 AM EDT
news, technology, media, newsvine, blogging, journalism, press, social-bookmarking, digg, citizen-journalism, blogosphere, del-icio-us, ohmynews
By Dennis M Wright
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Newsvine is one of my favourite sites and I have learned a great deal from it, but you have to question whether it achieves its goal of providing a breeding ground for Citizen Journalism or will ever get close to it.

How much content appearing on NV could objectively be described as Citizen Journalism in its true sense?

By definition, "the Wire" is the establishment press. Seeds, by definition, are not original content, so even if the seeded articles constitute Citizen Journalism, that journalism happened somewhere else and NV is just acting as a bookmarking site, like a Digg or del.icio.us.

That leaves us with Viners' articles. How many of those constitute Citizen Journalism, in the proper sense of reporting "real news"? This article certainly doesn't qualify! Mostly we get opinion pieces, effectively long commentaries on news reported by someone else. Some of the articles are excellent, and achieve a lot more than a simple rehash of the Wire. They can sometimes bring strands from different sources together to paint a clearer, more comprehensive or more objective picture, adding insight and providing context. But that is the stuff of blogs. It is not, to my mind at least, Citizen Journalism.

To qualify as Citizen Journalism, content should be "news" in the sense that it might have been appropriate for publication in some conventional news medium somewhere. We can't expect Citizen Journalists, with their limited resources, lack of press passes and their day jobs, to unearth hard news about crime, political intrigue, financial misdealings, wars in foreign climes, well at least not on daily basis, but we need something more than "my gran tripped over the cat".

There have been some notable and impressive exceptions, such as Zaki reporting from Kabul, Killfile on the Virginia Tech Shooting and Sandy Frost on the Shriners. But the point is that they were exceptions, so much so that they were all automatic shoe-ins for the RAV award.

Let's be brutally honest with ourselves. Genuine journalism by Viners is a rare commodity on Newsvine. Does that make NV a bad website? NO! Far from it! But is it fair to trumpet NV as a significant seat of Citizen Journalism?

Only if you redefine Citizen Journalism as something pretty soft, in which case you could equally claim the vast majority of bloggers were "citizen journalists".

In this post on Read/Write Web, newly seeded by Ready, NV is lumped in as just another social bookmarking site. This article by Zenaid shows say OhmyNews having the more convincing credentials in the Citizen Journalism stakes.

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  • Public Discussion (15)
Dennis M Wright

For the avoidance of doubt, the intention here is not to have a pop at Newsvine. I'm asking some questions, such as:

Were NV's goals in terms of forming a community of Citizen Journalists realistic?

What are the practical limits and genuine opportunities for bona fide Citizen Journalism?

Do we need to tighten up on terminology? In other words, what exactly do we mean by "Citizen Journalism"? Does it differ from "blogging" and if so how?

Should NV reconsider its objectives, with hindsight, in the cold light of day? That is, decide whether to settle for "just another well regarded social bookmarking site" or train its sights on the likes of OhmyNews and go for the real thing?

  • 2 votes
Reply#1 - Wed Sep 5, 2007 8:47 AM EDT
Donald Turnbull

The day when Newsvine puts user generated articles as the main focus rather than AP articles then I will consider it as a true site for Citizen Journalism.

  • 2 votes
Reply#2 - Wed Sep 5, 2007 9:17 AM EDT
Dennis M Wright

Isn't it more about what's in the user generated articles than where you display them?

  • 3 votes
#2.1 - Wed Sep 5, 2007 9:20 AM EDT
Josh of Arc

The day when Newsvine puts user generated articles as the main focus rather than AP articles then I will consider it as a true site for Citizen Journalism.

I have to respectfully disagree with that. Newsvine is a free site, and the 90-100% of ad revenue for user-seeded/written content goes to the user. Ad revenue for articles off the wire go to paying for the site, which would explain their more prominent positioning.

Unless you forget the heady days of the dot-com boom of the late 90's a site needs an actual business model if it wants to survive. TANSTAAFL :-)

-J

  • 2 votes
#2.2 - Wed Sep 5, 2007 3:21 PM EDT
Erik K Veland

Isn't it more about what's in the user generated articles than where you display them?

Chicken and the egg situation. Where's the motivation to create good articles if they are going to be buried in the Vine?

  • 1 vote
#2.3 - Wed Sep 5, 2007 8:10 PM EDT
Reply
Brian Ford

There are a lot of examples of Citizen Journalism on Newsvine.

Many of them are collected here.

  • 2 votes
Reply#3 - Wed Sep 5, 2007 1:01 PM EDT
Dennis M Wright

OK, but not a lot of that is exactly hard news, and it is not evident in the day to day fabric of the vine.

    #3.1 - Wed Sep 5, 2007 1:17 PM EDT
    Brian Ford

    Beh.

    Someone is always going to have a stricter definition of "hard" news than someone else.

    "Journalism" isn't only about hard news, either.

    • 4 votes
    #3.2 - Wed Sep 5, 2007 1:21 PM EDT
    Dennis M Wright

    I'm applying to join your group if you'll have me. It hadn't permeated my consciousness but I'll pay more attention to it in future.

    • 1 vote
    #3.3 - Thu Sep 6, 2007 9:41 AM EDT
    Reply
    kymlee

    It's interesting that this seems to come up so regularly. I think citizen journalists do have significant limitations, for the reasons you stated above. However, my concept of news is not limited to hard news. And there are many bloggers who write journalisticly so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them as it seems you have. Even in the journalism community, the definition of news is still under debate but there is a pretty set standard of news values.

    There are also various styles of reporting and editorials happen to be one of those styles. Some journalist never set out to write about hard news, I never did...I needed a longer deadline, lol. The point is that the idea that hard news is the only news is ridiculous and a standard that not even traditional media is held to.

    I tend to agree with you though, that most of the original articles are not hard news and the ones that are most popular (and this is just my opinion) are the least journalistic. I don't agree that Newsvine is just another social bookmarking site though. Neither Digg nor Del.icio.us allows users space to write their own articles.

    They don't have Vinemeets either! :D

    • 4 votes
    Reply#4 - Wed Sep 5, 2007 2:00 PM EDT
    ZenAid

    By no stretch of the imagination could Newsvine be called a hotbed of citizen journalism. However you define news, or differentiate between "soft" or "hard" news, the fact is that there is little reportage. So I think you have it right, Dennis.

    However, that doesn't diminish Newsvine as a news site. We spend most of our time discussing the news. I have never understood this disdain for wire agency copy or seeds of news articles. Without those, NV would be nothing more than just another social bookmarking site. There isn't enough citizen journalism here to fill the vacuum. Without the wire and seeds, NV would lose its raison d'etre. It is called NEWSvine, after all.

    • 6 votes
    Reply#5 - Wed Sep 5, 2007 6:21 PM EDT
    Dennis M Wright

    I agree with all of that Zen. Yes we may not unearth very much genuine new news, but whatever news there is we do discuss and shed some light, at least sdme of the time.

    And kymlee is right that we are more than a digg or delicious, but I am starting to think that the outside world sees us as just another bookmarking site icon to string onto the "share this post" list, along with technorati, stumbleupon and all the rest.

    • 3 votes
    #5.1 - Wed Sep 5, 2007 6:36 PM EDT
    ZenAid

    I wish the outside world included the BBC - they don't even see us on par with those bookmarking sites. I keep nagging the corporation to put a Newsvine icon on their stories, and they politely keep telling me no.

    Dear Zenaid

    Thank you for your email regarding the BBC News websites.

    I understand that you would like the News website to use 'Newsvine' as one of it bookmark sites.

    We are always delighted to receive comments and suggestions, as it is an invaluable source of feedback. Your comments will be registered on the daily log, which is made available to the website owners and senior BBC management. Feedback of this nature helps us when making decisions about future BBC services and your comment will play a part in this process.

    I hope this information is helpful, and may I thank you again for taking the time to contact the BBC.
    Regards

    Vikki
    BBC Information

    Please, y'all, send emails to info@bbc.co.uk

    • 3 votes
    #5.2 - Wed Sep 5, 2007 6:44 PM EDT
    kymlee

    They didn't even say no. I bet that's some form letter they send out to people who send them emails. How frustrating! The least they could do is actually respond to your request.

    • 2 votes
    #5.3 - Wed Sep 5, 2007 7:03 PM EDT
    Reply
    Autumnhaiku

    I have to say that in my 2 weeks here, I have yet to use Newsvine as my source for news. When I first happened on the Vine, I'd assumed the site to be yet another newsreader. Once I found the soc. network facet of it....and what a peculiarly charming society it is...plus the ability to throw up my own brand of b.s.....well...

    Even with a filter, the seeding process causes redundancy, which makes the site way too noisy. There are 1. those who seed simply to insert a story they've found (or to add to their seed count), 2. those who just have a brief comment to make about the seed, 3. those who want to write an in-depth piece related to the seed, and 4. those who wish to add the seed because it fleshes out a previous posting.

    For the in-depth writers, there those (the Josh Marshall types?) who take seeds and knit them together in a meaningful way (would you call that hard hitting?), there are those who write essays using the news as a springboard to leap into deeper discussion of a related topic, and there are the subject matter experts who can really shine a light on the subject.

    I'd like to see a way of distinguishing the above, so I can easily select the ones I wish to read (or indicate which of the above I'm posting). Mr. MB (sorry, can't spell his name) makes some good points in his recent post, "State of the Vine". More options at the point of publishing could create a deeper level of filtering.

    The popularity metrics on the site are also infuriating. The voting process causes stories to rise to the top regardless of the actual "importance" of the story, news-wise. Since my interest in the news may not be the same as the majority of Newvine voters, I'm forced to find my news elsewhere.

    It was easy to determine from comments and profiles that there's a group that's very serious about Citizen Journalism here, and that some in this group are frustrated by others who may not hold up to their idea of professionalism, journalistic capability, etc. Good writing, however, will always draw a devote audience. If you simply focus on what you do well, the riffraff may turn into loyal fans...maybe even sources for your next investigative report.

    As for the "soft" stories...sites like Huffpost are adding more and more of those to draw membership. I think that Newsvine could only be more successful if it could blossom into a full-fleged info-zine.

    Rather than worrying about popularity on the Vine, my guess is that drawing new believers to your posts through Google tag searches and getting your excellent posts noticed beyond the Vine jungle would be much more profitable for all.

    • 6 votes
    Reply#6 - Wed Sep 5, 2007 7:45 PM EDT
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